Immigration Trauma And Desi Mental Health

Immigration can look like forms and visa categories from the outside, but from the inside it often feels like fear, pressure, and a constant negotiation of safety. We’re Gitika and Malika, two Desi mental health professionals living in the U.S., and we get honest about how migration shapes our identities and the way we move through the world. We name what so many people carry quietly: the way your immigration pathway can define your role in the family, your choices at work, and your willingness to speak up when something feels wrong.

We unpack how different routes into the United States create different power dynamics, from employer-tied work visas to family sponsorship and marriage-based status. We also talk about the stories that stay hidden, especially asylum and undocumented experiences, where shame and fear can make even basic trust feel risky. Along the way, we explore why immigrants can live in a persistent survival mindset, how competition gets baked into the system, and what it costs our mental health when we only share the “surface level” version of our journeys.

The thread running through everything is community: what it means to find safe people, to listen without rushing to advise, and to build connection that makes life feel more livable. If you’ve ever felt alone in your immigration anxiety, grief about the past, or uncertainty about the future, we hope this conversation helps you feel less isolated. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find us.

Thanks for listening! we would love to hear from you, write to us, 

Your hosts, 

Malika & Gitika 

Malika is the Founder of Ik Aas Counseling, know more at https://malikabains.com/ 

Gitika is the Founder of Pranh Healing & Wellness, know more at https://www.pranhwellness.com/

Transcript

Welcome And What Desi Couch Means

Speaker 0:58

Hi everyone. Welcome to the second episode of Daisy Couch. We made it. The second episode. And we are your hosts, Gitika and Malika. In the first episode, I said something about Malika being my sister. She is my soul sister, but we're not like actually related. We might look similar because Punjabi. Yes. But uh yes, we are so excited to be doing this second episode. Daisy Couch is the podcast where we talk about the joys and challenges of being Daisy. Yeah. Joys and challenges, just the stories that we share amongst us that are unsaid, hidden, or maybe said and not heard. So here we are to discuss those. Yes. And we add a healthy dose of mental health because we are both mental health professionals. I am a licensed psychologist in the state of Washington. Yes. And I'm a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Washington.

Why Immigration Shapes Desi Identity

unknown 1:59

Yes.

Speaker 2:00

So in today's episode, we were actually thinking of uh talking about um Decis, but Decis from the angle of immigration, because we are both in the US and we were born and raised in India before we moved here. And um migration is such an important part of our stories. So I figured so we figured today we would start um with that. With yeah, just that with that, because it is an integral part of us, the way we do our practice, the reason why we even may have subconsciously chosen this field um and how we operate in our practices, the therapy modules that we practice and the therapeutic lens that we have, it kind of comes from that perspective of our own immigrant experiences in USA. Yeah, for sure. So to begin with, I'm wondering about what might be something that we would like folks to know about immigration or what do we want to acknowledge

The Many Paths Into The U.S.

Speaker 3:09

actually? Yeah, you know. I think first maybe I'm thinking about even just acknowledging how there are so many different means of immigrating to US. Yeah, there's not just like one way of doing it, there's literally 10, 12 of them. Yeah, and even if someone is an immigrant, their immigration story could be so different from one another. Welcome. Yeah, so maybe just starting with that. Yeah. Yeah. So um I'm thinking if you actually go to the United States uh immigration website, I once for a joke uh try to see whether every letter of the alphabet, the English alphabet, A to Z, does it have an a visa associated with it? It I think it does. I did I can see that. Yeah, I can see that. Yes. Oh my gosh. Lots of people who come with a visa on different. Um sorry, I'm gonna pause for a moment. Can you close that door? Yes, this will get edited out, or maybe it won't. I don't know. Like we say in Bombay, yeah, this is a homemade podcast. It's a not uh it's a homebound podcast. That's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is. Absolutely. So, you know, coming back to there are just so many visas, but also uh there are in our communities so many different ways of coming to the United States, and our community is filled with people who uh came to the US either through family or through work, yeah, and in many cases uh people who may have also gotten married to someone who was a citizen and then got migrate that way. Right. So either you married someone who's a citizen or it's it's your parents who who were a citizen and then they can kind of um immigrate, naturalize their kids into the US, right, or it's all of the other social um justice lens visas. Um if you're a victim of a crime in US, there's an immigration uh through that. If um the sex traffic, the human trafficking, there's a special visa for that. Um there's asylum cases, there is um the really big one that gets misused

When Visas Create Power Imbalances

Speaker 5:42

or can be used as like a power over someone. Um, is if you marry someone who is a US citizen and then you are here because of them, sometimes that gets kind of held on the on the person who is relying on the US visa holder, like, well, if you don't do what I say, then you're gonna be deported. So yeah, there's something called VAVA, it's a um violence act, violence against women's act. Yeah. So if you and it says women's act, but it's applicable on both men and women. But if it's like your partner is your citizen and you came here based on their immigration status, now they're exerting control over you, power over you, and kind of threatening you to be deported if you don't do what they say, then you are eligible to um yeah, go through the route of um immigrating or staying in the United States based on these acts. Um again, this is very lame in long language, so please do not use this as any legal advice. This is just us kind of describing what are different ways of that people have utilized to immigrate to US. Yeah. And one part of acknowledging these different ways of migrating to the US or uh being able to live in the US is also to somewhere talk about how varied our community is. There's just so much diversity in our community and so much uh ethnic diversity, religious diversity, class-related diversity, and then diversity in experience. Yeah. That uh migrating the pathway that you use to migrate speaks a little bit about your experiences in life and how we as a community can actually speak about the similarities and differences uh within our community based on our immigration stories as well. Because, on one hand, there is the power that someone exerts over you because of marriage, or uh like even the family reunification that if you're getting family, uh you're sponsoring your family from somewhere else in the world, you're sponsoring their uh arrival in the US, whoever is sponsoring that arrival is has power. Yes, right? And even for people who are using work visas, they again are reliant on their employers to keep that visa alive. So the fear of losing your job and not being able to quit your job, even if it's really exploitative, because the fear is I'll lose my visa. So that constant power that is uh in that power imbalance in the room is quite alive. So, how does our community speak about immigration and what that immigration is doing to our lives and how much we are defined by what brought us to the US? So, whether it is uh if you came, let's say, for work or to study, that role ends up being the most prominent role. Yeah, you came here to be with family, that ends up being the most prominent role. Right. So somewhere even talking about those things. I love that because yeah, you're right. Depending on you know how you came here, your decisions, your life is kind of based off how you got here. Then once you have once you have arrived, then again your journey is going to be based on what your immigration status is and how you're supposed to maintain it and keep it with you, and what kind of criteria you need to be meeting in order to stay in that box, which comes down to the work visa. Like, oh my god, you have to continue to do A, B, and C if you want to stay here. If not, well, you need to go back. Yeah, welcome. Well called, yeah, yeah, and then also like you know, the refugees

Refugee And Asylum Shame In Community

Speaker 9:53

and asylum seeker pathways. Yes. When we recognize that refugees and asylum seeker pathways mean that there is persecution that was happening where you migrated from, but are we talking about that persecution? Right. Right. Yeah. So if someone is seeking asylum in the US, they uh asylum seeker, the pathway itself means you need to document that you were being persecuted and there is fear of your for your life. Yes. If you were to return to your country of origin. So in our DeCy community, wherever our you know, our Desi lands of origin are, wherever in South Asia, we mostly of course end up talking a lot about the South Asian context because we know that uh well. Yeah. But do we speak about the causes of persecution? Or do we, you know, again, these are secrets that we don't talk about. I know, even with each other. We don't. It's such a hush-hush thing in the community, it in itself comes with a lot of shame that this is this is why I had to leave, or this is how I got here. Because if you're coming as a refugee or as an uh asylum, the journey to get to the United States is one that is physically threatening to your being. Um, it is uncomfortable, it's like a very mild word as I'm describing it. It's horrendous. Um, it takes days, if not days, it takes months to get to US. So no one talks. Well, I'm sure someone is talking your own. We won't say no one. There's no online thing. Yes, all or nothing, honor nothing. Um, but it's uh not that um it's not publicly acknowledged thing. It's not something that we can casually just be sitting and having a child with the story but there is so much uh pain, uh threat, shame, humiliation attached to the fact that oh my god, I left my home, my home country, I had to leave, and then I had to go through these like horrible waves of paths that I had to take to actually get to the US. And now that I'm here, it's not that my life is great now, there still are continuous challenges. So sometimes it's the shame that stops you from talking about your journey, it's the fact that there is no time to even reflect on the journey because the next challenge is already there, and you need to get on it and figure out your next path now that you have arrived. Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that is one of the things in our community that we might speak about the opriopri things, you know, like uper uper say, like surface level. We might say, Ha, right, I'm here on our Viza, or I'm here on this, or something basic that I moved here in this year, something like that. We will keep the surface level details, but I don't think we talk about the pain of all of it, right? Yeah, and that's also part of like whether it is shame, whether it is being told, ah, don't think about it so much. When that's all it's easy to say, don't think about it. How do you not think about it, right?

Paperwork Panic And Immigrant Fear

Speaker 13:11

Because I remember a few years ago, I don't know whether you remember this, there was a flight, an international flight, and as the flight was landing, there ended up being some kind of an emergency. There was something happening, and they wanted people to evacuate the flight very fast. Okay, so this the crew actually took videos saying that we were telling people to evacuate, don't take your stuff. Yeah, but there were a lot of Indian immigrants on the flight who were jumping for their bags. Yeah, and those the crew and the videos went viral. People were complaining that my god, you need to evacuate. What are you reaching for your bags? And I was just like, immigrants reaching for their paperwork. Yes, I see it. Yes, I see you. You need it. How about you who will tell me? Oh, I understand. You've lost your passport, you've lost your visa, you've lost everything. I believe you. That is a fantasy. No, it's nightmare, nightmare, fantasy like a fictional story. I lost it in the this emergency land, and then like oh cha, it's okay. They understand. That's not gonna happen. It's again like the burden of like convincing and kia huwa ta and then months long of journey to get those documents back while you're in the US, you're trying to get documents from India or wherever you're from. Like that is insanity. It's scary, it's scary, and now

Undocumented Life And The Trust Gap

Speaker 14:41

imagine these are folks who have documents. Yeah. Now I'm thinking about the large uh undocumented community in the Desi community. Yes, we are scared of talking about it also, right? Like we are like, oh, you know, yeah, we don't want to put our Daisi uh people in any kind of danger. Then oh, let's not talk about the undocumented community. But I'm I I do like sometimes wonder like how do we talk about it in a way that folks can feel like we have each other and not like I can't risk The C people knowing I'm undocumented because I could get in trouble, or like the Desi person itself will put me in trouble. Can we trust each other? I there is such a huge lack of trust in even saying that out loud. Yeah, I don't think I can. So there this there was this this was another community meetup that I attended as a speaker, and it was with the Punjabi community, and the talking uh topic was the mental health of immigrants, and it was a lot of Punjabi members, and I could I when I see them, I could tell they're Punjabi because of the clothing that they're wearing, whatnot. Um even right now when I'm describing, I'm trying to be very vague, yeah, so that I don't give out too much because that's how I feel protective about the community. But then when I was talking, there was this news person, Jarani Bulayotha, who was gonna record the whole thing. And me being me, flow flow me, I said a lot of things in regards to and I this was me still being protective, but I mentioned a lot of things about how um the uh the ways that uh people get to US being undocumented, is it the asylum seeking? And I was talking very freely and insinuating that we all know about it. Like that is how I placed my words, that this is a very common thing. We are about like you know what I'm talking about. That's how I was kind of very frankly talking to them, so that I can really get to the bottom of hey, there is mental health concerns, even if you have uh immigrated 20 years ago, you may still be holding on to a lot of that journey and the pain. And afterwards, that recording went on YouTube, and I had given out a lot of things about my family because I was like trying to really journalize we're all in it, and then they sent me the recording, like hey, we have uploaded on the YouTube, and I saw I'm like, oh my god, and this was thick when um the ice was you know really kind of escalating, and so I talked to the person and be like, hey, I noticed a few things, sections, please cut out. Like, I cannot afford to get this out and in a public platform. So it's like even if we want to talk about even as a mental health professional, there is so much fear associated even right now, as I'm trying to talk about it. I'm like, I think we're gonna edit this also. Yeah, like how if we as the mental health professionals have such a hard time describing him, put articulating into words, how do we get to the point where we are saying, normalize, let's have a discussion? Because that lack of trust is really high. Yeah, because a lot of the immigrants are in the survival mode, so it's always fight or flight, it's me or you, it's never us. It's like we are fitting against, we have to compete to get here. Yes. The the lottery ticket, that is the H1B lottery. The H1B, like all of these immigration cases, agar U visa. U visa is like you have to be a victim of crime in the US in order to apply for a visa. Even that U visa, there is a limit to how many of them are going to be accepted in a year. There is always a competition. So there is not that level of compassion and trust. Already, I guess, like if you have become a green card holder or a citizen, maybe then there is some level of like, okay. And I've arrived. And then yeah, yeah, but I think immigration immigration trauma is like such a particular kind of trauma. I mean the

Immigration Trauma And Survival Mode

Speaker 19:25

amount of is it I will lose my life? No, but I will lose my uh safety. That safety is not just life safety, that but it is like I mean not physical safety alone, but it is social safety, psychological safety, and like the safety to earn my income, to live my life on my own terms. Whenever that safety is violated, we of course go into a trauma response, right? And so much of immigration, there is the desire to migrate, right? The dream to migrate, and then there is the fear of what will happen if I don't migrate. So that's why, right? Like there are push factors, things that push you to migrate, and then there are pull factors, the things that are attracting you to migrate. Yeah. And then there is the trauma of migration. So much has changed and so much uncertainty is there. Paperwork hai and it's not. Whether you have paperwork or you don't, there's so much unsafety, a lack of safety. And then, you know, this competition that you speak about, right? Like it's either me or you. Yeah. That is also like such a survival response. Yeah. And I think it's also like an impact of colonization that there is such a strong survival response that we are in this together, doesn't feel safe. It's like, no, it's either me or you, right? Which is a survival mindset. Yeah. I can't save everyone. But the thing is, even when you're trying to survive, and there are examples of this all over the world, you will see these examples in a lot of places that are experiencing a lot of military impact right now. I don't have to take the names. Whichever year you're listening to this podcast, I can guarantee you there is a war going on because unfortunately, that's the world we live in. Yeah. You will see so many examples of people getting strength from coming together. Seeing we are in this together. Right. And the trauma can inspire a survival mindset that says competition, competition. Yeah. Or it can also be used to inspire a survival mindset that says we will survive this together.

Choosing Community Over Competition

Speaker 21:37

Yeah. So that's why, like when people like go into community, right? Whether you find a religious uh place that that's where you meet the entire Sangat, you meet the community, you or you're finding other things that you really enjoy doing. Like people, you know, like I I remember being working at an organization where people used to come together and they used to be knitting together, they didn't know anything else, they had nothing else in common. They were all knitting together. Right. One thing they had in common that was the community. Right. So you're talking, but you're knitting and talking. But the thing is that whole idea of actually connecting with people and not only being in that survival, you're either with me or against me kind of mindset. Yeah, yeah. So I think that's been a very important realization about there's the trauma of migration, right? And then there is the mental health of immigrants. Right. How do we actually find that pathway that is wholesome? Because you know, this competition mindset, it's short term. It is, it leaves you lonely. There is no sustainance to that because I think even now, like maybe our generation, I don't so I have a weird concept. Like, I'm also first gen, but I'm also an immigrant. So my parents were here before me, but then the life changed. We went back to India. And anyhow, so the thing is ki up now we are challenging, but my parents and the parents' generation. Still have the mindset. Don't uh you know, we like it's not uh it's not safe, it's not trusting to trust others in the community with crucial information. With like with socializing, connecting, um, fluff conversations, surface level, huh? That is great. Maybe reminisce about something. That kiha's. We need community for that, but then the ones that are like really close to your heart, like it's very hard to again trust the other person, and then that's where sometimes I have seen it for others. And then for us, you know, as South Asian therapists, yeah. How did we all start connecting to each other? Because all us, all of us, we were with the same capacity, uh, same mindset. Wait a second, why are we all like in our own pods, you know, practicing as a therapist in our own pods? How would we all come together? And so that's where we all try and like reach out, catch up who else is there, who else is there, and then we have a group, and now we have like such a big connection and network of South Asian therapists because we are trying to break that, we are trying to kind of bring in some safety and not competition, right? Even through our professions, totally, because you know, I mean, I realized like the benefit that came from knowing I'm not alone. Yeah, I have my other Desi therapists to lean on for advice, consultation, support, and also I'm not alone in serving my community. Yes, you know, so it's not like, oh, now that I know Malika, like what if she takes all my clients? Okay, I cannot serve everybody. That is fact. Malika, you also cannot, you know that, right? I know that there's a limit to all of us, and when we all feel burnt out, I love that you've mentioned it. When I feel burnt out, I have to know there is someone else who's you know holding on the batan and continuing to serve the community, and that's where you and Raman and everyone else kind of comes to my mind, okay. You know what? Yeah, like I don't need to push myself so much because sometimes my heart is like, oh, community, I need to like be there and show up and sure go to my work and show up for the sessions because I have to like knowing I have a community of uh healers with me, it it gives me the permission to be like it's okay. Yeah, they are here if I'm not here, it's okay. They are there. You know, there's this amazing black Buddhist teacher, Lama Rod Owens, who had once he I read his emails, and it was such a sweet prayer. There were many things he wrote in it, but one of it is uh may I be released of the burden that this is mine to carry alone. Yeah, yeah, and I love that. Like, you know, I love my community. I love I love people, that is a fact. Like, I know I'm in my friend circle, I'm sometimes saying humanity na will go gas churning. Like I'm so sick of humanity. Save the animals, everyone, hum humans are useless. But I the fact is I love humans and I love our community, yeah, and sometimes it can feel like this desire to serve and make sure that we are recognizing each other's humanity. It's uh it's it's a real purpose. But if I believe only I can do it, nobody else can do it, this is ekto, it's it's a lie, that's not true. Yes, and secondly, it can feel like a burden instead of joy, it will feel like pressure. Yeah, many karungi the conversation. If I don't do it, who will? Right. So community lets me know hey, I'm not alone. And I guess through this conversation today, it's almost inviting us to inviting each other and our listeners to think about how can immigration be something that we can talk about, make room for, and take the shame out of.

Small Conversations That Build Safety

Speaker 27:13

No matter what, whether you're undocumented, whether you came as an asylum seeker, whether so asylum seekers usually have to come into the US in some way and then basically request asylum. So you know, you so you don't come in as an asylum seeker, you come in on a different pathway and then you request asylum. So I just want to clarify that. Either way, but no matter how you showed up, and no matter what immigration process you are undergoing, and we are speaking from the US context right now. I wonder if our community can build safety around having these conversations. And they don't have to be conversations that are broadcast, they don't have to be. So that's why, like, you know, if safety comes from smallness, small numbers, quiet, but overall, can our community like have that with each other, you know? So somewhere like a mental health, mental health doesn't come from strategies, right? Mental health comes from okay, strategies have their own place, so I'm not dissing strategies, but mental health comes from building connection, yeah, and building a context, building safety inside and outside, and building safety for each other. For sure. So I think that's like one mental health prayer that I have for everyone. Like, yeah, may you seek safety, may you seek connection, may you not give up on your fellow daisies or your fellow beings. Yeah. That safety is something each of us deserves, and you can look for it. And how is I guess an ongoing question. Yeah, and it can be through like very simple check-ins about you know how whatever you're feeling. Sometimes an immigrant person could feel I'm the only one who is afraid and anxious about my future and worried about my future, but then despair about my past. Sometimes it becomes like a bubble. We are the only one who is in this bubble, and the other immigrant is fine, they're thriving, they're good. But I just want to say like that's us all of us being in our bubbles because majority of the immigrants are having a similar experience of feeling the uncertainty, the anxiety, the dread of the future, the grief of the past, and figuring out what my home is, carrying two homes all the time and three, four, who knows how many homes at this point we're carrying with us. So knowing that it's okay to kind of broach that conversation, even if the other person is not the one, the first one to initiate the conversation. Because again, you know, coming back to that, we are all very used to talking about the good and the wonderful and the exciting and the successes, and then we kind of go in our own shells when we are dealing with our pain. So just a simple check-in about like, yeah, I'm really feeling anxious about like how it's gonna be in the future. We this is what's going on in my immigration case, and you know, just being able to check in. Yeah. Because even if they have become a citizen now, they still understand the the grief of going through that journey. So they will be able to hopefully they're able to hold space for you, for someone who's going through it right now.

Closing Thoughts And Listener Support

Speaker 30:34

And in all our episodes, you know, even our future episodes, I think I would love for us to keep talking about ways we can ask for support and offer support. Yeah. Because I think sometimes our community really appreciates therapy also because it's the first time they experience someone listening without giving advice. I know, or judgment. Yeah. And on one hand, I feel like, oh god, what have we gone through so much that we are just like the first thing my therapist is gonna do is give me advice. But she did give me advice, it was so great. And I was like, such a simple it's it's a very simple thing to do, to not give someone advice. I take that back, I'm sure it's difficult because I mean we've been given advice our whole life. If it was that easy, I think that's because everyone is like so they all want to express their and share their learnings, like everyone is so filled up with their own journeys. Kin listeners come here, speakers, everyone wants that space to just express they're like all so filled up because there is that cycle of silence coming back to it. We're not talking to each other about our pains and struggles. So if someone had to share their pain and struggle, then the other person's like, oh, I know that. Here's what you can do. Oh, me too, me too. So it becomes that key. Finally, someone is talking about this, but let me share, you know, how I will come at what I did about it. Totally, it's that excitement also. Absolutely, I know this, and and maybe yeah, and and that's the sweetness of you're not alone, I'm their Jew. And how do we still listen in a way that the person who first broke the, you know, first asked for the listening voice gets the space they need. Yeah, and then you know, turn taking, turn taking, turn taking. But we'll talk more about that in future episodes. This is what you get when two therapists break the silence on BC life, trying to take turns and be like, I have something to say, oh, that's exciting. Let me piggyback, and then my brain takes me to all these different amazing, I love it. But uh, I am aware of the time, as they say towards the end of session with me as a therapist. This is usually what I say in the end. Oh god. If so, if anybody I'm giving away trade secrets toward when you know we're uh close to time, I always name. So I am aware of the time. So Malika, indeed. I am aware of the time. So I'm wondering as we prepare to close, is there any last thing that you'd want to say? I think I would just like to echo what you mentioned earlier that we love the community, we love being part of it, and we hope that we continue to mention things that we have also not yet explored in regards to the journeys of being an immigrant. And um, I maybe we can do something for us to discuss later. Maybe we can do a part two of this where we just kind of focus on how do we navigate an immigrant client's pain and suffering in our sessions and what is something that we feel has helped or hasn't when we try to navigate that clinically. Yeah, sure. And it can hopefully like give people ideas about the possibilities in therapy if you're a client and also the possibilities in therapy if if you're listening and you are a mental health professional or a caregiver yourself. Um, I hope our next episode will actually be something that gives everybody listening something to take away. Yeah, that's all. That's all. Thanks for listening. Please uh subscribe and like and review this podcast. We would love to pop up in your inbox whenever we launch a new episode. So thanks so much for listening. Our uh information, our respect uh is going to be in the show notes, and uh, we look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Bye.